Thanks for the quotation that i had not viewed prior to
I’m not sure if you had use of Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or otherwise not, because try composed given that a guide having Americans having colonial forefathers out of Plantagenet ancestry. The guy gets as one of their evidences one Joanna are the fresh new mother off Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn provided new features away from Knighton and you can Norton castles inside Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer when he and you will Gwladus was in fact hitched. It would were unlawful for Llewelyn giving Joanna’s assets so you’re able to a keen illegitimate daughter (or person who was not an infant of Joanna). The fresh new qualities out-of Norton and you will Knighton stayed about Mortimer household members after that. This new offer are, “That when new King bring House in order to a person having a great woman off their kindred for the frank matrimony, additionally the lady dyeth without material, the guy regarding the Leaders situation should not hold it having their lives, just like the lady caused the the gift.” Put differently, the fresh features might have reverted returning to the fresh top ahead of it would have been supplied to a baby who was perhaps not Joanna’s.
Hi, Marilyn, I did not have access to this new Plantaganet Origins of the Doug Richardson, however, performed have access to many conversations of your and his ideas together with other genealogists (certain having him, however, many as well as facing). I think, as i manufactured in my earlier in the day paper, one to what swings it for me personally(Joanna as being the mommy off Gwladus), is the transfer of functions you discuss to Ralph de Mortimer on his ed a couple of their students ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose if the Gwladus had been the fresh ded her youngsters thus. Inspite of the arguments between your eminent genealogists I mention above, there’s a general opinion one to Gwladus Ddu shall be fairly defined as the fresh child out-of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth of the Joanna, daughter (subsequently legitimised) regarding John, King from England. Allow me sexy irish girls to bring so it possible opportunity to go along with Sharon (into the a message to me) one Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, thereby getting blood brother to Gruffudd. We ft that it partially to your today’s listing utilized in ‘Royal or any other Historical characters Illustrative of your own leadership off Henry 111,’ edited because of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. To your profiles five hundred-503 is the transcript off an original page old Marshall, Earl from Pembroke, so you’re able to King Henry 111. Within letter, Marshall covers their siege of the castles out of Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He directories the individuals he based in the palace O’Realy whenever it surrendered, they included: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I’m informed this particular means you will find right here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, who appears to be called ‘cousin from Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd to be the newest illegitimate son regarding Llywelyn, it is taken one to ‘de- patre ainsi que matre’ means Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd had been full bloodstream aunt and cousin. Had Gwenllian come Joanna’s daughter and therefore Queen Henry’s relative, definitely Marshall would have said on that truth? That it inability from de- Lacy’s spouse due to the fact king’s niece, try removed as close specific evidence one Gwenllian was not this new daughter of king’s cousin Joanna.
These qualities was in fact part of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their particular father Queen John
Ken: Thank you for that mention of Gwenllian. I’m most certainly not an expert genealogist, however, I do lots of research on my own lines. In my opinion a number of the “pros” are really envious and you can aggravated of every almost every other (no less than it seems that ways in a few of everything it blog post). You can find items that the audience is just not probably discover with confidence on the members of new MA as they failed to continue public information like we would today, thus genealogists and you may historians need to use their best judgment in the sorting anything away. In reality, public record information are a pretty “new” style – of many states within the usa don’t keep facts off births and you will fatalities till the very early 1900’s. We get into several lineage communities where I have had in order to show 11 otherwise 12 generations, and you can trust in me it is not easy. And so i most delight in the challenge regarding evaluating MA ancestors. (Plus the unfortunate thing is the fact that facts that are offered towards the MA is actually of your royalty and you may nobility – absolutely nothing whatsoever to your common individuals).